Posts by Doug Mason

17

VAT 4956/LBAT 1420 question

by outsmartthesystem in

i posted this as comment number one million in the nov 1 wt thread...but i'll post here too:.

i don't know if this has been discussed yet....but if it is agreed that vat 4956 is from the 37th year of nebuchadnezzar (the argument being was year 37 in 568 or 588bc), and there is no argument that bm 38462 (lbat 1420) shows 2 eclipse records for year 17.....then what is the jw response to the details of those eclipses?

bm 38462 (lbat 1420) describes in great detail an eclipse that happened on tebetu 13 of the 17th year of nebuchadnezzar.

Doug Mason

VM44,

I suggest that you will get more precise information when you Google for the geographic co-ordinates (and in terms of minutes and seconds), the elevation above sea level, and the time zone.

Doug

55

VAT 4956 Astronomical Observations

by VM44 in

starting a new thread to discuss the astronomical observations recorded in vat 4956..

Doug Mason

VM44,

you have a pm.

Doug

61

Watchtower admits the KISS method works - Nov 1, 2011 WT, p. 24

by Alleymom in

the following posts and graphics refer to the k.i.s.s.

(keep it simple, sweetie) approach to 587/586 bce,.

which i introduced on july 12, 2003.. here is a link to the original thread:.

Doug Mason

I know my approach is a tad complex, but I use WTS sources to form the accepted neo-Babylonian chronology at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/WTS_support_for_the_Babylonian_king-list.pdf

Doug

23

Looking for transcript of the "Miracle Wheat" trial

by Doug Mason in

as the title of this thread says, i am looking for the transcript of the "miracle wheat" trial.. any clues?.

thanks,.

doug.

Doug Mason

I am asking on behalf of a friend who specialises in researching the early 20th century history of the WTS. I intend forwarding your comments in due course.

I found what appear to be newspaper articles at http://www.archive.org, by searching for "miracle wheat" (Make certain you include those quotation marks, otherwise you get all sorts of things with "miracle" in the title.)

Doug

17

VAT 4956/LBAT 1420 question

by outsmartthesystem in

i posted this as comment number one million in the nov 1 wt thread...but i'll post here too:.

i don't know if this has been discussed yet....but if it is agreed that vat 4956 is from the 37th year of nebuchadnezzar (the argument being was year 37 in 568 or 588bc), and there is no argument that bm 38462 (lbat 1420) shows 2 eclipse records for year 17.....then what is the jw response to the details of those eclipses?

bm 38462 (lbat 1420) describes in great detail an eclipse that happened on tebetu 13 of the 17th year of nebuchadnezzar.

Doug Mason

According to Stephenson ("Historical Eclipses and Earth's Rotation", page 97):

"The geograhic co-ordinates of Babylon are: lat. = +32.55 deg, long. = -44.42 deg. Since the plain in which the site of the city is located is so flat, there is no need to make any allowance for horizon profile in deducing the time of sunrise or sunset, etc."

Doug

17

VAT 4956/LBAT 1420 question

by outsmartthesystem in

i posted this as comment number one million in the nov 1 wt thread...but i'll post here too:.

i don't know if this has been discussed yet....but if it is agreed that vat 4956 is from the 37th year of nebuchadnezzar (the argument being was year 37 in 568 or 588bc), and there is no argument that bm 38462 (lbat 1420) shows 2 eclipse records for year 17.....then what is the jw response to the details of those eclipses?

bm 38462 (lbat 1420) describes in great detail an eclipse that happened on tebetu 13 of the 17th year of nebuchadnezzar.

Doug Mason

I have no idea if this will be of any help: "Five Millennium Canon of Lunar Eclipses -1999 to +3000 (2000 BCE to 3000 CE)", Espenak and Meeus, NASA. Available for download at:

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/5MCLE/5MKLE-214173.pdf

The main page at NASA is:

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse.html

They also have a search engine for SOLAR eclipses at

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsearch/SEsearch.php

On the page http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/JLEX/JLEX-index.html it says:

"The Javascript Lunar Eclipse Explorer can compute the local circumstances for every lunar eclipse visible from a city for any century from -1999 to 3000 (2000 BCE to 3000 CE). When was the last total lunar eclipse visible from London? When is the next partial lunar eclipse visible from New York? These questions and many others can be answered easily using this web tool. Pick a geographic location and search for all eclipses visible from that spot over several thousand years."

I hope that's a bit of a help and is relevant to your needs.

Doug

23

Looking for transcript of the "Miracle Wheat" trial

by Doug Mason in

as the title of this thread says, i am looking for the transcript of the "miracle wheat" trial.. any clues?.

thanks,.

doug.

Doug Mason

As the title of this thread says, I am looking for the transcript of the "Miracle Wheat" trial.

Any clues?

Thanks,

Doug

55

VAT 4956 Astronomical Observations

by VM44 in

starting a new thread to discuss the astronomical observations recorded in vat 4956..

Doug Mason

VM44,

It seems to me that it is one thing to document the outcomes of calculations, however I think it is important also to document the input side.

For example, what are the inputs? their criteria? any assumptions? how do these impact the results? and so on.

Is it possible to run the program on a tablet for which there is no controversy as a double-check?

OK. I know it's tough. All that the W/T did was to make an unsubstantiated claim, but I am interested in knowing that any results and outcomes can be substantiated, even if that ultimately requires a documented report.

Doug

55

VAT 4956 Astronomical Observations

by VM44 in

starting a new thread to discuss the astronomical observations recorded in vat 4956..

Doug Mason

VM44,

Please do not ask me to comment or explain. I am certain your skills far exceed mine.

I am simply providing this information as background, given your interest in Julian dating. From my simple reading of the following, it seems possible that caution needs to be exercised when plotting Julian dates into a system, since these guys seem to have a Julian day number (JDN) as well as a Julian ephemeris date (JED). Whether that has any significance for you, I cannot even begin to guess.

Here then is the piece that speaks about converting from either the Julian or Gregorian calendar to the JDN (if that matters to you)

Doug

-------------

On a systematic solar calendar - such as the Julian or Gregorian system - it is a relatively straightforward matter to calculate the exact number of days between any two selected epochs. Most computations of this sort make use of the Julian day number (JDN), devised by Joseph Justus Scaliger (AD 1540-1609). This scheme is based on a cycle of 7980 Julian years, commencing in 4713 BC. The precise epoch from which Julian days are numbered is Greenwich noon on Jan 1 (Julian calendar) in that year. A major reference epoch is 1900.0 (i.e. Greenwich noon on 1899 Dec 31), for which the JDN is 2415020.0. Since most modern astronomical computations make use of terrestrial time, it has become customary to use the Julian ephemeris date (JED) where necessary; this begins at 12h TT.

Various algorithms have been developed to convert from either the Julian or Gregorian calendar to the JDN, among the simplest being those deduced by Muller (1975), which make full use of the rules of FORTRAN. These are given in equations (1.20) and (1.21). Here J is the JDN, Y the year, M the month and D the day of the month; all variables are treated as integer.

For any date AD on the Gregorian calendar:

J=367*Y - 7*(Y+(M+Y)/12)/4 - 3*((Y+(M-9)/7)/100+l)/4+275*M/9+D+1721029. (1.20)

For any date on the Julian calendar the following simpler formula applies:

J=367*Y-7(Y+5001+(M-9)/7)/4+275*M/9+D+1729777. (1.21)

I have employed these formulae in many of the computer programs which I have developed.

(Historical Eclipses and Earth’s Rotation, pages 31-32, F Richard Stephenson)

55

VAT 4956 Astronomical Observations

by VM44 in

starting a new thread to discuss the astronomical observations recorded in vat 4956..

Doug Mason

VM44,

These just some personal musings between you and I, so no one else will know what I am thinking.

To the average Joe Witness, these esoteric interpetations of ancient characters, results from astronomical software, and such, fly over their heads.

I guess the average JW simply says, "that's what the 'brothers' in Brooklyn say, and they have the resources. End of story."

All that the writer of the article needs to say, is that some anonymous people have conducted an undescribed unverified analysis and their unseen report supports the WTS. When this is done, that is good enough for a True Believer, because of who said it -- the WTS.

What goes through my mind is that there is a number of astronomical tablets in the British Museum, which singly and together confirm the accepted dates for Nebuchadnezzar. There is thus the weight of evidence, not just VAT4956.

Interestingly, the WTS relies on an astronomical tablet for its method of getting to 539 BCE, so the WTS should not deny the integrity of astronomical tablets out of hand. Pity is that "their" tablet has admitted errors, and it is a calculation, not an observation. So their arguments against records of calculated eclipses is an "own goal".

Did you see the pic on page 32 of my Critique:

http://www.jwstudies.com/Critique_of_When_Was_Ancient_Jerusalem_Destroyed.pdf

Doug